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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Mar 7, 2009 2:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

to much talk bout our dislikes.. is that what happend to this culture?? mmm? dont ever remember dis crediting any member of the band when i was at a show!! why now? are we better? are we worse?? ya know we are probably the last to ever exp. what it was like. to be at the grateful dead show no matter what year. we were there!!! and nothings gonna bring that back.but this hoopla bout bob is crazy. its still a part of all your life. as a whole. we bought tix. now we complain?? whats up with that. did your life change after your first show??? mine did, peace!! wwd

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 7, 2009 4:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

I yelled out "this song sucks" at hampton when brent went into "I Don't Need Love" out of Terrapin. Does this make me an asshole? Sure - because I am. I never thought any of them walked on water - but they gave me some of the greatest days/nights of my life (and more than a handful of froggy Jer nodding out shit shows).

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 7, 2009 5:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

We criticize because we care. Like those who care most about America are often it's dissenters. What few, gentle criticisms I make of the Dead are only because I know perfectly well (as does everyone on this board) what they are capable of, what they CAN do, on a good night. I only compare the Dead to the Dead, which is a high enough standard to hold them to, I'm sure... :)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 7, 2009 5:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

Of course! All the reactions, both sides of the fence and in between, are to be expected of any family...we love and we hate em, depending on our mood. And if I know one thing, I am absolutely confident that Jerry wouldn't have it any other way.

The Unexamined Band is not Worth Listening to.

Well, OK, IMHO, the hypercritical considerations are in fact the appropriate perspectives, as most all that I have read hereabouts are motivated by a geniune love of the band. If the diehard HEADs cannot provide critical analyses, who can? Who is better positioned that we to say "hey, this is different...this sucks...I used to like this, and now that sounds different" etc., etc., etc.

Does it ever mean that it is a true commentary on the "value" of the band or the individual members? WTF? Is that what this is about? Of course not...but, just as BD and I can judge whether Kareem was as good in his 18th yr as he was in his second with the Big O, so to can we judge whether Jerry was singing or playing poorly in 94...it's not a big deal.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 8, 2009 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

Of course! Bob got better and better as he aged...like a fine wine or a fine bluesman, he honed his craft as the years passed by, and his fans stopped loving him for his shorty shorts, and boyish good looks, and started appreciating his ...

Oh forget it.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-03-08 15:33:54

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Mar 7, 2009 6:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

We should surely cast a jaundiced eye towards ourselves, 'cause everything we debate has the benefit of hindsight. (Unless commenting on the contemporary Dead.) Much of what we criticize couldn't be done without the retrospect we've gained over the years. This is especially true of critiquing sound files...that may or may not be a vast improvement over what the actual show had to offer.

One thing the archive that we have doesn't do is lie. If it's a badly played show, all you got to do is listen. A decent ear knows when the tempos is lagging, when Garcia and everybody else is singing off key, when segues fall apart, when the show sucks. (Even this becomes subjective in the eyes of the star struck lunatics that just happened to be at that particular show and can't come to admit after they traveled so far and spent so much Karma that it sucked.)

Like it or not, if you've left 30 years of evidence, there will be plenty to be critical about. Especially from the comfort of a Monday morning quarterback's chair.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 8, 2009 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

Good point, Earl. In a way, I provide an example. [place yourself on auto snooze for the following as it sounds so like my usual...]

While going to shows in the 70s, I had many a discussion with nonbelievers as to just how much better the DEAD were than any other live act. Though as I admitted in the other thread, I was sometimes troubled by a nagging sense that all was not right, this was subverted to a greater degree every time I became my enemy in the instant that I preached (hmmm, that line just sorta came out as I typed it).

Years later, with the benefit of all the tapes and all the analysis from folks like you and LiA, and HeLives and Monte and the rest, I have of course, rejected my hedonistic youth as somewhat misplaced temporally, and realized most of the joy was associated with the "scene", etc., etc., and that in fact, Donna, Bob, whomever, were at many times, not quite the performers I made them out to be.

Not that this doesn't mean there is a crap load to critique in the early era, but you get the idea. It took some historical perspective for me to come to this, as you note.

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Poster: Star Struck Lunatic Date: Mar 7, 2009 6:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

You are right.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Mar 7, 2009 3:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

As far as I remember Dead Heads were always willing to criticize anyone in the band when they weren't satisfied. I recall a lot of bitching about Jerry getting fatter and more into the persian from the early 80's on. I can't tell you how many times I heard disappointed chatter when Jerry would just turn, flip his guitar off his shoulder and leave in the middle of a jam before drums. Many of the folks I knew expected great things from the boys day in and day out. Was that realistic? Obviously not. I'm not talking about times when they tried something out and it failed, that was why we loved the band, because they were willing to take risks.

Never forget, though, that it was a 2 way street,. Dead Heads, because of their tolerance and love of the band, gave them the freedom to fail. It was when it seemed that they were just mailing it in that people seemed to get upset. Yes, they had a hard schedule, but Dead Heads put a lot of effort and time and spent a lot of money just to get to shows.

We used to laugh at the Heads who thought 1) that the band, especially Jerry, could do no wrong and 2) that somehow we were lesser Dead Heads because we were willing to criticize when we felt the effort was not up to par. This idea that somehow we owed them something was always laughable to me. If it weren't for Folks like all of us here, these guys would not have become the millionaires that they are today, and would not have had the freedom to play the music in the manner that they loved.

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Poster: The Guilty Stain Date: Mar 7, 2009 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

BACK IN THE DAY, if you payed for a whole tour and witnessed 20 show w/ 5% amazement rate that was o.k >
$400 for tix, $100 for doses, $250 for shrooms, $250 for weed, $400 for beer, $200 for balloons, $500 for gas, $600 for food, and another $300 {if not trading) for misc...dye etc... like a gamble w/ the band, but the scene was the happening. That's an expensive vacation. Now it's like disneyland for the 20th time.

Whata go on the tea cups again ?

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Mar 7, 2009 3:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

YEAH!!! WELL SAID BROTHER!!!purple gel that bout hits it!!! if we were all perfect they could not create test!!

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Poster: The Guilty Stain Date: Mar 7, 2009 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

dreamer, I think that since the winslow raid of '85 and after Jerry's death everything just hit the shitter. The band names.... Jerry would be pissed about it all. The was Pig's band, Period, but there was no name change when he died, so WTF ?

Have a cheeseburger on Warren today.

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Poster: ducats Date: Mar 8, 2009 6:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: where's the love?? its a steam locomotive!!!

I agree it was Pigs band - then Jer's. none of the remaining 4 should have never played together again, nor played Jer's stuff at their own gigs.